tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9605443.post113813320105018388..comments2023-07-31T11:16:26.491+08:00Comments on The Threshold of Hope: Same-sex MarriagesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9605443.post-1139594794890143632006-02-11T02:06:00.000+08:002006-02-11T02:06:00.000+08:00Thanks Chris, that is a great idea. Hope it works ...Thanks Chris, that is a great idea. Hope it works when the time comes.<BR/><BR/>You are right in saying that I have been using religious reasoning, because it seemed to me (though I might be wrong) that our Catholics believe that there is nothing wrong with homosexuals getting married, hence the apparent silence. Before addressing the secular world, we need to be grounded in the teachings of our faith, otherwise we don't even need to talk about speaking out when the time comes. <BR/><BR/>The mere idea of gay marriage is unacceptable to the Church. I hope that every Catholic would actively take the same stand, through a greater understanding of why the Church says this.<BR/><BR/>Would appealing to natural law would work across religions in this situation?Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17423334447265311020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9605443.post-1139540997296246442006-02-10T11:09:00.000+08:002006-02-10T11:09:00.000+08:00Hi Daniel,It's not that we are not interested abou...Hi Daniel,<BR/><BR/>It's not that we are not interested about the possibility of Gay Marriages in Singapore, but first of all we are confused as to what you are trying to address here. Are you arguing against legal adoption, or the mere idea of gay marriage? Whom are you addressing? The state, the average citizen, or only Catholics? <BR/><BR/>If you would like to prevent Singapore from legitimising gay marriages, then you should be providing reasons that a secular state can accept. You appear to be using reasons based in church teachings that are not geared towards this purpose.<BR/><BR/>If instead you are trying to reach out to the general population, then again, your arguments need to be a bit more general. This is a good analogy with the sexuality debate that is going on right now. Why should a Hindu, or a free thinker' pay heed to Canon Law or the CCC?<BR/><BR/>In truth, if you want to prevent gay marriage laws, the most effective way is to simply feel offended. Claim that marriage is sacred and that gay marriage offends your sensibilities. Write letters to MPs and the media saying that it would be unacceptable. The state, which is ever respectful of religious sensitivities, will not dare to legalise it. At most, gay legal unions may become recognised, but 'marriage' will not happen.<BR/><BR/>Would you have a problem with that?ChrisYeohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04480542368518702944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9605443.post-1139460966868284702006-02-09T12:56:00.000+08:002006-02-09T12:56:00.000+08:00It seems to me that no one else here is concerned ...It seems to me that no one else here is concerned about the reality that such a situation will come to Singapore in the future.Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17423334447265311020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9605443.post-1139219696914181572006-02-06T17:54:00.000+08:002006-02-06T17:54:00.000+08:00First you say that "approval of homosexual union b...First you say that "approval of homosexual union by the state isn't a concern of readers".<BR/><BR/>Then you say that "legal homosexual union is coming here(to Singapore)" and that we should "speak out against it". <BR/><BR/>Doesn't the "it" here refer to the "approval of homosexual union by the state" ?!<BR/><BR/>??? Did I miss something here ???ChrisYeohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04480542368518702944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9605443.post-1139200514724996912006-02-06T12:35:00.000+08:002006-02-06T12:35:00.000+08:00Since apparently, approval of homosexual union by ...Since apparently, approval of homosexual union by the state isn't a concern of readers, there isn't really much to say.<BR/><BR/>But I would like to add that conservative nature of the state isn't going to last forever. Ten years ago, no one would openly talk about promiscuity, but now it seems to be the 'in' thing. <BR/><BR/>Legal homosexual union is coming here, make no mistake about it. It's only a matter of time. The question is, are we ready to stand up and speak out against it?Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17423334447265311020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9605443.post-1138537289073009982006-01-29T20:21:00.000+08:002006-01-29T20:21:00.000+08:00I thought you were talking about the state and not...I thought you were talking about the state and not the church. So why are you using arguments from the church? The secular state will never accept them.ChrisYeohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04480542368518702944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9605443.post-1138367202781474392006-01-27T21:06:00.000+08:002006-01-27T21:06:00.000+08:00Marriage is described in Canon Law as a "covenant ...Marriage is described in Canon Law as a "covenant by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of their whole life and which of its own very nature is ordered to the well-being of the spouses and to the procreation and upbringing of children." (can. 1055)<BR/><BR/>1) Gay couples can be loving yes, but can they be life-giving? Can a gay couple bring about life through their sexual union, the way a man and a woman can? By definition in the Catholic Church, a marriage must be between a man and a woman. A union between a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, is not, and cannot be, marriage.<BR/><BR/>2) Indeed the argument does hold for couples who decide not to have children, which is why the Catholic Church is against the use of contraceptives. In fact, if a couple have decided not to have any children at the point when they make their wedding vows, that is grounds for annulment of marriage i.e. the marriage isn't valid in the eyes of the Church.<BR/><BR/>This is another reason why this debate does affect us, because I am sure that we know Catholic friends who feel this way. It is one way in which our faith is applied to our life and the choices we make. <BR/><BR/>The issue of same-sex marriages may not take place in Singapore any time soon, but it will one day be an issue for us. This is one of the impacts of globalisation.<BR/><BR/>Already couples are getting married with no intention of having children. It is indeed a cause for concern, not just for members of the Catholic Church, but obviously for the government as well (since population seems to be Singapore's only natural resource).Danielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17423334447265311020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9605443.post-1138363068224044082006-01-27T19:57:00.000+08:002006-01-27T19:57:00.000+08:00I would have argued exactly the same way that the ...I would have argued exactly the same way that the Phil guy did: <BR/><BR/>1) Why do you assume that gay couples cannot be loving and life giving families through adoption? You will need to give a reason.<BR/><BR/>2) Whatever argument you make against gay marriages, it seems to hold for couples that have decided not to have children. Are you going to ban them from getting married?<BR/><BR/>Thankfully, there's no real need to argue it in Singapore because the government will not allow it. They'll simply say that we are a conservative society with 'asian values'.ChrisYeohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04480542368518702944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9605443.post-1138357538591207652006-01-27T18:25:00.000+08:002006-01-27T18:25:00.000+08:00I was hoping to generate our own discussion based ...I was hoping to generate our own discussion based on that bit that I provided, and see how far we fall from the article in CWN's archives.<BR/><BR/>In the meantime, here's a CathNews article on gay marriage:<BR/><BR/>---------------------<BR/>Pope says 'no' to gay marriage, abortion pill <BR/><BR/>Pope Benedict, speaking in the context of this year's Italian general elections, yesterday condemned gay marriage and the use of the so-called "abortion pill"..<BR/><BR/>Reuters reports that he was immediately attacked by gay leaders and leftist politicians who accused him of interfering in domestic affairs.<BR/><BR/>The Holy Father, speaking to political leaders of the Rome region, said marriage is not a "casual, sociological entity" but "a question of the correct relationship between a man and a woman".<BR/><BR/>Italy goes to the polls on 9 April. The elections will pit former European Commission president Romano Prodi's centre-left grouping known as "The Union" against Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's ruling centre-right. Italy's Catholic Church has already served notice to the center-left that it will fight any move to recognise civil partnership for unwed heterosexual couples and gay couples. Prodi has promised some form of recognition for unmarried couples but has stopped short of supporting gay marriage.<BR/><BR/>In his address, the Pope said the defence of traditional marriage was "not a peculiarity of Catholic moral teaching but part of an elementary truth regarding our common humanity".<BR/>---------------------<BR/><BR/>Original article: http://www.cathnews.com/news/601/36.phpDanielhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17423334447265311020noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9605443.post-1138244125303122742006-01-26T10:55:00.000+08:002006-01-26T10:55:00.000+08:00Can you provide us the actual link? I can't find t...Can you provide us the actual link? I can't find the original article in CWN.<BR/><BR/>Seems like a very poor argument.ChrisYeohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04480542368518702944noreply@blogger.com